Ask Adam & Tony: "Too old to bother?"

“Dear Adam and Tony, I am 65, hot and used to be up for a party. But it all seems gone now. When the time comes to go out in the evening, I find myself thinking it would be better just to go to bed. I can go out in my van and score, but it’s cheap and shallow, and most of the time I find it boring. I am fit and still hot enough to score, so I’m told, but it’s all just such a bother. I would rather read some hot stories, get off a couple of times and hit the old waterbed.  What to do? Dave”

Dear Dave,

Adam: The question for me is: are you happy with your solitary sex life, with occasional forays out in your van for anonymous sex, or do you want more? The fact you have written to us suggests you would rather have more connection with real human beings, despite the fact going out to meet them can be a hassle.  In many ways it’s easier to have a fantasy sex life than a real one.  Whether your primary motivation is to find a sexual partner or not, I think it’s important to get out into the world and have real relations, interacting with people.

What are you interested in?  What cultural, community or sporting events draw your eye in the local paper?  Maybe at 65 years of age, you’ve got so much to offer in going out to meet people, people to build relationships of trust with, people who you’ll share common interests with.  You may well then meet men who are not only gay, but comfortable with their sexuality, having integrated it into all aspects of who they are.  One such man may become your next boyfriend.  But to make this happen, you’ve got to act!

Tony: It sounds to me as though you’ve got to that point in life where you find some of the old ways of enjoyment no longer work for you, but you’re trying in vain to revive them.  Maybe you find the quick score in your van ‘boring’ because, now, for you it is!  So don’t do that anymore. You’ve got all you can from that and now it’s time find new ways to stimulate your social glands, and the only way to do that is, simply, to do something new!

Don’t be old, Dave, and think it’s all over, but rather see the benefit of all the experience and knowledge that you now have.  If superficial scoring no longer does it for you, it’s a good sign that your inner being is telling you it’s time to move on, not out of life, but into new and exciting events, enjoyments and people.  Only you’ll find out what that means, but go do it, and see it as a new and adventurous stage of so much that is left in life for you.  And who knows who you may ‘score’ with then?!

(Photo: Getty Images)

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Life partners for more than 20 years, Adam Clark and Tony Dines are the United Kingdom's leading life coaches specializing in the needs of gay men. They have a private practice in London and offer face-to-face, telephone and email coaching to men throughout the world. Check their website for information about private consultations.

Do you have a question about how to improve your life or your dating situation? Send an e-mail to dating@planetoutinc.com

Comments

[Father Mike]

We should never quit on life. Join a social club of some sort, a gay one if you can find it. Stay active in the community, offer your experiences to younger men. By this time in your life you have discovered we don't "find" love, it seems to find us. By going to bed early, alone and perhaps just a tad bit sad, you give up on life.

Go for the gusto! Sometimes, just being who we are around others is enough to attract someone new and interesting and exciting. The old adage, "Life is a journey, not a destination" is never more true. Enjoy the journey, even the not so interesting parts, it helps us truly savor the good parts when they finally arrive.

[Simon]

Adam - I so hear you. But I constantly tell myself that the gay scene is reinvented every few years by the new generation that comes through.
I'm 48 now and feel like a dinosaur in Sydney. Partying, drugs and Britney don't do it for me. It's a youth culture and there is truly nothing for us to do. (If we want to retain any dignity or sense of self at all.)
I guess we just need to all stick together and make our own scene.
From one to another - good luck, babe.

[zarxo]

Regaring the first paragraph, if an old man "thinks like that" then he should stay home.

When do gay men mature to where they hold the line of curiosity, maturity, and role-model.

It's hard to find a man at 38 let alone sixty who can give conversation and still has not given up on life--and the latter is what the youth hold--until they become the same, or if that youth are lucky, they realize the there is a differnce from biological nuture and adult love. The first is always confused with lust and feelings/desires; the latter is never considered--only because, it has never been taught.

If one cannot place a actualize cause to a desire, any desire than more than not that person has confused right with duty.

Just becuase you desire something does not mean it exits, it's available or it is even logical to have.

Like your constitution, all rights and privileges juxtapose a duty. With that same thought/concept in mind, if one has a desire is there a duty or a cause that juxtaposes that desire or effect in which one craves?

To say it is not enough--what can one do to parallel its cause?

I once heard a company executive say this to a mentor: a man should know what he wants and has a direction by thirty. I hope this matters becuase if it does not then "what does?"

[egad]

65 & gay? You should be overjoyed just to be alive!

But seriously. Enjoy your life in whatever way you want, and if you're 65 and haven't figured that out YET, well then so much for the saying "older and wiser". :p

[Steve Williams]

I agree with Simon's comment to "make our own scene." At 51, I've decided that middle age is underrated. Why should I let inexperienced youth make me feel bad about a being middle aged gay man? I can still do nearly everything I could at 21 (albeit with a few aches and pains) yet I now have the wisdom and experience to know better on a lot of it. I still have good looks and I do my best to stay in shape (vs. allowing gravity to take over). I hear so many gay men over 35 say "I'm old" or refer to themselves as an "old fart." I refuse to do that and don't accept being called old by the young guys. So guys, don't give up or give in to the aging process! Let's celebrate the lines, wrinkles and hair loss as the wisdom and experience we add to our life portfolio. Stay young by staying in shape, both physically and mentally! I for one wouldn't mind meeting another hot mature man.

[doc1066]

Along with all the other good advice let me add this ... talk to your doctor about testosterone levels ... it's not all about personal choice and interests and such ... biology counts and yours may need a minor tweaking :)

[George of the Jungle]

Is that a handycap van or a minivan? or a decked out van with shag carpet? Perhaps the disco ball has been dusted a few times so what...or just maybe your priorities have changed. I am 42 and have always had an old(er) spirit, did the bars in my teens and twenties and got it out of my system then. Now when I go to them I am chocking on smoke and amazed at all the drunks. There is more to life than partying. The occassional frolic is fun though...ease up on yourself. Join a gym...go for a teabag party!

[bob]

how about just living life? does everything have to revolve around gayness, sex and drinking? enough already. check out the real world.

[GlennC]

Dave - You need to get out and join a gay men's social group. There you will meet and interact with others and have a good chance of finding someone who shares your interests.

I belong to both a mens outdoors group and a mens nudist group. Both are non sexual but I find that the opportunity for sex is always there. Plus there are other single men like you who are looking for something different and who knows, you may find a partner.

Try asking around at different gay bars and other gay businesses in your area, your local LGBT center or online to find a list of groups in your area. You won't be sorry.

[Juan Carlos Alfonso Víctor María de Borbón y Borbón-Dos Sicilias]

65 and "hot"? Yeah sure. As hot as the major league assholes Dick Cheney and George Bush are hot. And going out in your van for sex? That really is pathetic. You may think it harkens back to your good ole Woodstock days but it is as creepy an activity as something out of the Hannibal Lechter series. If like everyone in your generation you got this far in life at the expense of others and you still find yourself alone then that really is YOUR problem. So go feel sorry for yourself. But no one else should have any sympathy for a baby boomer. No one.

[Sargon Bighorn]

We're going to be hearing about this more as time goes on. Single people growing old as single people with no social network. Couples are slightly better off and those couples with kids will live their later years in the lives of their children.

I don't know what the answer is as I think western society does really make provision for the social lives of anyone over 30.

[Sargon Bighorn]

Oops Western society does NOT make....

[Jon]

In response to that last message, I say to that person who wrote that nasty ageist comment, I hope YOU are miserable and all alone when (and IF) you reach 65.

[Ray]

A lot of the harshness of some of these comments astounded me at first, but I realized it just falls into line with my own opinion of the gay "community". Try being over 40, maybe put on a few pounds and go out for a beer and see the icy reception you get from your gay "community". Sad to see all of the cynicism and lack of sympathy for someone feeling lonely. I'm "only" (comparatively) 48, I'm retired Air Force after 20 years, I've been all over the world, conversant in two languages other than English, have a master's degree, make six figures in my post-military employment, and am able to travel and do stuff I like. Would I like some companionship, sexual or otherwise? Sure. But I haven't been out to a gay bar in about 3 years now, haven't even dated in about 10 years now, because all I see when I've taken a look is a bunch of needless drama, crackheads, or just another gay man with a poppers bottle seemingly surgically attached to his nose and his heels to the heavens. What's to get excited about THAT? Just a bunch of melodramatic, hyper-critical bitches. That, to me, has been MY experience with the "gay community". Just call me - MUCH happier without the B.S..

[Ray, II]

PS - Sidebar note to Juan Carlos Alfonso Víctor María de Borbón y Borbón-Dos Sicilias: The one guy I occasionally meet up with for bedroom fun is 64, 100% masculine, much fun in the sack and hotter than hell. I don't care if your true identity was George Clooney - with that attitude I wouldn't have a thing to do with you, social or sexual.

[Jared4everx]

I don't understand why older gay men only seem attracted to younger guys. You are really cutting yourself off from a whole bunch of guys looking for love. If your main criteria for a relationship is that a guy be young and good loooking, I find that very shallow and you kinda deserve to be alone. Wake up and realize that you are creating your own loneliness.

[Woofda9]

I think it ironic this story, written by two older men in a relationship, who live in a metropolitan area are providing advice to mature men about finding and building relationships. Optimistically, their advice is given to find our niche, to stay positive and not stop pursuing a hope that it is possible for older men to find love. Forget the reality of our self absorbed, narcissistic and selfish gay culture.

POLLYANNISH at best and INSULTING at the kindest.

The clubs and groups and associations are all pretty much a waste of time. I have run into open relationships, married men, the infamous bisexuals, the deeply psychotically closeted and the addicted. The "good man" there is usually me. I generally won't come back.

The work for me now is to accept the nasty reality of growing old gay, and alone. Don't even throw in the additional dilemma of HIV status--then you would really get a dose of how much this can bite.

[Steve]

Unfortunately, people tend to buy into stereotypes. What we believe about "them" is based largely upon our perspective. "Women are indecisive, inner city youth are thugs, good looking people are smart, ugly people are dumb, 'young' is good, 'old' is bad..." etc.

If the stereotype ascribed to someone is a 'negative' one, I think he first has to ask himself how closely he resembles that stereotype. If he doesn't want to be lumped in with those who embody the stereotype, he needs to change what he can and accept the rest. If he's comfortable in his own skin, then he needs to stay in the game.

In either case, if someone tired of being alone, he needs to seek out those who find his particular stereotype desirable. There is someone for every "Silver Fox", and a chaser for every BBW.

[Akula66]

I don't get the obsession with being young again. Why would I want to be 20 again working shitty jobs, driving a piece of shit car, no money, living in a shitty apt with roommates or even worse at home with the parents. I think to many older guys look back with rose tinted glasses. I'm 42 with a great husband, house, 2 cars, good job, great friends, and money to burn. Why would I want to give that up so I can stay up late party and fuck all night. I don't get it.

[wallace]

I think you look pretty hot ! I would have never quessed you were 65. That's pretty hard to beleave. I would have guessed fifty something. I wouldnt tell anyone my age. I'm still 36 have been for 18 years. Everybody knows me at 36 so they never ask me my age haha. You have to get a sense of humor and quit worring about your age. Just the thought of your age will depress you. I never think about it. I feel young in the process. when I hit 65 I may change by age to 40, but not til then.

[Kris]

At 29 I started to feel the same way, with the big 3-0 right around the corner. It has been a struggle to find that special someone and I always feel worst after a relationship goes bad. I start to feel like well Im getting too old to date and that I should just settle on hookups. I did a few of those and got bored quickly because that is not what I want out of life. I realize that even though finding that right guy is a challange I cant give up and let the years pass me by in bitterness. Im talking to a few people now but have adopted the "friends first" thing. I figure if someone likes me enough to be my friend first, something great is more likely to develop. My advice..... Stay away from younger guys. They are immature and dont know what they want out of life. I generally hold the cut off date at 5 years. Im getting to the age where clubbing all the time is getting old, even though I still go with my best friend on occasion. Talks about brittny and fashion seem so irrelevant with all the world problems we face today too. As I get older and change, so does what I want out of life and relationships. I know that if I try hard enough and take the attitude that if a relationship doesnt work out then it is not meant to be attitude I will be more receptive when the right guy comes along. Its going to be hard right now cuz I work full time and going to school to better myself and my career, my free time will pretty much be spent in bed with my eyes closed, lol. My life has been rough with pitfall after pitfall. If I find myself giving up I just have to keep trying. There is more out there, you just have to find it. Dont get discouraged.

[Nait]

I agree with Jared4everx. I've never understood why older guys go for the younger ones. I've had older guys (40's+) hit on me and ask me out in bars and I simply said no, that I was looking for someone around my age. Then I'm called names and insulted for not being open to older men...Well sorta a double standard huh? Why can't I look for someone my age and not older if they themselves are looking for people my age and not theirs??

I personally want someone around my age because I want to learn and grow with someone, I don't want to be with someone who is so experienced in life that they don't want to do certain things because they already done them. When I grow older, what I look for will change, I will still seek someone who is in, or around, the same place in life as me. More then likely that person will be around my age or older. If you're going to limit yourself to "young, hot" then that's your choice...Just don't complain if a young guy says you're to old if you won't even date someone your age...

[Jonathan]

Heres the deal I've noticed with older gay men. They don't want someone their own age. They want someone young. You can't help growing older, it happens, and theres nothing to do about it. And we really can't help our attractions, but a lot of older gay men get offended when you tell them their too old for you. Maybe if the guy in the original article had met someone 20 years ago, settled down and made a life instead of hooking up in his van he wouldn't be alone now.

[queerplanet]

Maybe if he would have been a good Christian and met another good Christian gay man into monogamy he could have joined the military and had a normal life

His partner would have lied to him about cheating because talking about sex would have been taboo.

His partner would have gotten HIV and lied about that too since talking about outside sex was taboo.

And he would have been sent to Iraq to die as a mercenary for oil.

In the meantime he would have had HIV and not known it because he was a good Christian who didn't think talk about sex to his doctor, and his partner would have infected him without knowing, and nothing would be said, and he would be in Iraq dying of AIDS just before being blown up by a suicide bomber.

Instead he chose to be a promiscuous gay man in a van and lived to the dignified age of 65.

[oldkingtroll]

Well, I am an older man and tend to look for people around my age +/- 5 to 10 years; though if someone approaches me, I am not so shallow as to dismiss him out of hand because of age differences. And I HAVE been approached by younger guys. However, I do not seek them out because they are my kids' ages and that just seems wrong!

But there is a deeper truth here. Older guys are considered toxic by most of the gay community. I have been treated to gratuitous insults simply because of my age or failure to dress a certain way. If I go to a bar -- just to listen to music which I love -- younger guys have hit me up for drinks and/or money; as if the fact they ask is enough reason for me to give them any.

Real and deep friendships are more difficult to create and to maintain, the older we get.

At work, I am considered desirable by women who are around my own age. They see that I spent six years managing my dad's affairs until he died from Parkinson's; that I've been a good single father to two sons; that I am a good colleague to have; and s forth. And some women have as much as thrown themselves at me.

But with men, none of this seems to count. My time caring for dad was seen as competition to me giving some of dates my full attention. And because my kids were in high school, I did not bring just anyone home and also I had to be a dad -- again, an unforgivable sin to many guys I dated.

But you know what? I am satisfied with what I've done. Now that I am relatively free, I travel without apologies for going solo. I will go to a bar or to a concert as I wish. I've seen a lot of the world and plan to see lots more of it. I may be a troll; but life is still good.

Bottom line: sex is easy. A relationship, THAT is difficult.

[ThatCrazyguy]

I don't mind older guys but i dislike when they chase after younger guys "to feel young" yea w/e.

[Eric]

Here's the unvarnished truth, and everyone in here knows it. The gay social culture is youth and looks obsessed. Once the looks start to go, noone has any interest in you. The str8 world has so many more options for older guys. Yeah, there are happy older gay couples....but there are a whole LOT of former hotties that are old and single now too, and staying that way probably

[Ray]

"Old guys only chase young guys" is a stereotype too many people buy into. I was 19, and the first guy I dated was 38. I always like the maturity and *mental stability* of older men. As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm now 47 and would give my left arm to find someone my own age who can relate to things we have in common. I don't want to try to discuss the social edginess of "All in the Family" and hear "I don't know - I wasn't born yet." And I don't give a rip when Madonna's next tour is coming to town. (Madonna? See how dated I am?) And oldkingtroll - you sound very much like the morally upstanding, responsible guy everyone professes to want for relationship materia. But then - why do so many men waste their time chasing guys they're obviously not compatible with? *sigh*

[thunderone]

Tony, how does one get in touch with this Dave. sounds like someone one would like to start as friends, and see where it will go. but Dave sounds good, nice, well-grounded.

some OLDER guys chase all the younger to make themselves FEEL young but on the surface, they look ridiculous and still look OLD. to date a younger twice, maybe 3x your age does not make one look or feel good, they just make themselves look OLDER, if anything.

I, certainly would like to chat with Dave, just chat first and take it fronm there

[terry]

After I hit 41 this year, my gay dating life went totally dead. Gay bars - BORING. Been there, done that for two decades. I go to a bar and sit there and plan my week. So physically I'm there but not mentally. I don't find guys my age or older physically attractive. So quite frankly, being gay isn't worth the hassle. I'd rather enjoy myself with hobbies than have a "partner" I'm making love to, while thinking of someone else the entire time. Or being ridiculed for dating guys who are too young for me. It's a fact of life. Over 40, gay life is finished. You're either looking for houseboys, have an old guy fetish, or let it go. Otherwise you're the old pervert talking to guys half your age. Or you cling to it, spend your life obsessing about your looks/going to the gym 2 hours a day, trying to compete with 20 year olds who have to do nothing to maintain the "cute look." etc. Pretending the reality doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

[Mr.RXX]

What the older man is supposed to do? Atleast be nice and not brash n leave that - "I know all attitude"

Being young, I try to respect them, converse with them and meet them..They act more pricey n hard to get than a hot younger model.They always don't reciprocate any nice feelings (Most of them) and act kinda choosy n quirky..Feel that they act more selfish and snooty than the younger guys.Atleast the younger guys are direct in what they want and real.Also they lust for younger guys who are hot models..not ready to meet really good normal guys too..

It never worked for me - meeting or chatting with an older guy. I guess that they get what they deserve..

[jeff]

hey there is alot they can find around there age.

[John aka Heretocheck]

Hey guys, very interesting… To Juan Carlos Maria Victor Maria de Bourbon y Bourbon: Shame on you man for your cruel comments… No tienes verguenza… To the other guys, including Adam and Tony, who are offering words of encouragement: thanks… you really know the meaning of "compassion"

The case of Dave reminds me that gay or not gay one has to prepare for old age… On my 50s now, gay, and single, I must admit I have a plentiful life… could not be better. Thankfully I have so many things in life that keep me going: my job, my family, friends, everything around me… etc… great if someone comes along and wants to be part of the fun.. If not, big deal… I wish Dave could feel the same way… get up man and learn how to enjoy life at your age…

[Clay Burton]

Im 45 and getting Older, Better ,Wiser, Mature and more Grateful everyday. I never was attrcted to young guys so older men for me never go out of style. Frankly I just coudln't deal with myself if I were 20 something again with all the drugs ,drama and self- interest.

My body ,Mind and Spirit simply adore comfort, security and serenity.

Oh I know (for most) when you are young, being old is repellent. But in my 45+ group we think being young again is simply too much trouble.

Anf Yes...I look and salivate at the young ones like tigers in a meat shop, but I choose the soothing and lighter digestive affects of an older man. He's so much easier to swallow (LOL). Grrrrrrrrr Rooooaaarrr!!

[Tom]

Gay life is cruel. The notion of a gay "community" is a farce. The older one gets, the slow slide into irrelevance accelerates. Maybe in one's 20's, the novelty and freedom of newly coming out (and getting laid frequently) is exciting. The reality is any thing but. At this stage in my life, I can truly say I would rather have been straight- never something I would have said in my 20's. Life would be so much easier as a str8 guy.

[Ray]

Very well-said, Tom. I was pretty closeted until I was 39 when I retired from the Air Force. So, after moving every couple of years, here I am now at 47 with no "old friends", and at 47 - guys aren't exactly lining up to get a spot on your dance card (no matter how empty it is.) But, at least I'm not like the one guy a poster described - the older, youth-obsessed "fading eagle" gay man who spends 2-3 hours a day in the gym and squeezes into an Abercrombie & Fitch tight t-shirt one (two?) sizes too small and hitting the bars every night (THAT will age in a hurry, bud!) :)

[Michael Dillon]

At 61, in shape and not bad looking, with a good job and a sailboat, 4x4 and travel trailer I seem to not find any one to share my life with.
So I am content to live alone.
In a little over a year from now I will retire and sail around the world. BY MYSELF. I am sick and tired of the gay lifestyle. As it has
been said here it is all about youth
and being goodlooking. Brains not accepted.

[Damian]

Tom said: "Gay life is cruel. The notion of a gay "community" is a farce. The older one gets, the slow slide into irrelevance accelerates. Maybe in one's 20's, the novelty and freedom of newly coming out (and getting laid frequently) is exciting. The reality is any thing but. At this stage in my life, I can truly say I would rather have been straight- never something I would have said in my 20's. Life would be so much easier as a str8 guy."

So gay life is only worth it when the gettings good? Now that you're older and finding that an after-hours hook-up is a bit harder you'd rather be straight, please you're just a selfish and self-centered homo. If you were str8 and in your 20's with your baby momma you'd be complaining about that too. And quit perpetuating the "there is no gay community" myth, because that is only true for vapid narcissist like yourself that dug their own graves when they were looking down at everyone in their youth. You wonder why YOU don't have any sense of community? And yes I am still in my 20's, which I am enjoying thoroughly, but can't wait to grow older with my friends and family.

[Tom]

Damian, you are a self-righteous presumptuous gay lemming. I never did the gay lifetsyle you describe- the reason the gay "community" is so pathetic is because of judgemental pathethic presumptuous types like you than can't take any criticism of the "gay" without putting at risk their own delicately constructed (and fragile) existence, Lets have this conversation again in 20 years. I'll put a $100,000 bet on that you'll be a bitter queen.

[Damian]

I'm self-righteous and presumptuous? Please, I am not the one speaking in generalities letting my own bitterness taint my perception of all gays and the entire community "gay life is cruel. The notion of a 'gay community' is a farce." I'll take criticism of our community any day(cuz yeah we're no angels) but I take exception to the fact that you want to stereotype all of us as shallow, selfish, conceited and later on in life bitter and jaded queens. And to say things like "At this stage in my life, I can truly say I would rather have been straight- NEVER SOMETHING I would have said IN MY 20's," yeah life sucks sometimes, I get that man, but I'll stick to the life I was given through good or bad. Yeah I am definitely the one making our community look pathetic. Oh and I am 100% sure I would win your bet.

[Sargon Bighorn]

Here's a thought to the "older" gentlemen here. Why not spend some time in the gym? (others have down played the gym, I don't). What I see is too many guys WAY over weight. Not a pretty sight at any age. Compete with yourself to get in shape, wear flattering cloths, be well groomed, don't be an Ass (that's a BIG hurdle for most) and you'd be AMAZED at how many men will talk with you, at the bar, on the street, in the gym, at your place of worship, at work, just about any where. that's been my experience.

"I don't find guys my age or older physically attractive" - terry age 41

I would ask what if they're in better physical shape than a 30 year old? That does happen. This comment suggests a deeper issue, not just the stated one of no one "my age or older" is attractive to me. Many Gay men have this issue, personal fear of Aging. How can someone that is 50 lets say, who is in fact in better physical shape (6pac abs, big arms, nice chest) , NOT be more physically attractive than a 30 year old with a gut and skinny legs? (These are just examples of course, your taste will determine the criteria you use). Because it's a totally "age" based outlook on life. It's the "age" of the person that makes them unattractive NOT any physical features. Buffed lean muscled 50 = Unattractive, Fat, out of shape 30 year old = Attractive. The determining criteria, Age. I'll defend terry's right to have that outlook, even if I think it's not healthy; you have a RIGHT brother!

Here's the trap that many fall into and wonder why they are single. "The older one becomes the more selective you are, but the less desirable you are."

[Gaysian920]

I like older men because they know how to treat a guy right, and they have been there in a relationship type and know how to make a guy happy.

[lowmercury]

Don't you just miss the halcyon days of 1960's and 1970's? Yep, back then the 18 - 30 somethings were totally blind to age differences and went out of their way to ensure the 40+ crowd were all taken care of and made to feel like one big happy gay family. It really was that way back then. Fast forward to present and those 18 - 30 somethings of yesteryear now heading into retirement just can't understand why the GenXers, Millennials and younger aren't following the outstanding example Baby Boomers set all those long decades ago when it comes to age acceptance. Only young gay men of today are totally obsessed with youth and are body fascists too. It wasn't like that way at all back in the 60's and 70's. But life's a bitch ain't it? Especially if you were one yourself in your own youth! Woodstock hypocrites! Ha ha ha!

[K]

Everyone says the gay community is shallow and age obsessed. It's the whole society. Straight single women feel marginalized because they're written off as they get older. The only group that seems to get an advantage to getting older are straight men with their trophy wives. I think that a lot of problems gay men have with each other is that we only see each other in terms of whether we'll have sex with each other or not. I think something has to change and we have to either be able to be friends without the sex part or just be able to let go of someone without being mean about their looks. We have to have the last two as options too. We have to see each other as whole human beings. By the way, I got the last thought from reading an interview with Kathy Griffin.

[Eric]

I agree totally with Terry, Tom, and Ray. I also don't think someone currently in their twenties can judge what life will be like for them when they reach midlife and later. When you're young there's a tendency to think everything will work out wonderfully for you in later years. You're physically at your best and full of confidence, and see no reason why everything won't stay that way. See me in twenty or thirty years. The straight world is much kinder. There are tons of young to middle aged women who will date older guys. I also don't understand the nastiness of the comments coming from younger guys in here. Let's have a little respect for each other and try to value each other's opinions. If you disagree, state why...no reason to get so personal and nasty.

[K]

There's plenty of older guys that are jerks too. Getting older doesn't mean you're better. Age isn't an accusation, it's just what you do with your life that counts.

[Raster]

It was the Baby Boomers who came out with the extremely bigoted phrase "Don't Trust Anyone Over 30!" They even put out the film Logan's Run with the plot line that people have to die at 30. So "Too old to bother?" Definitely! I agree with the comments from Juan Carlos Alfonso Víctor María de Borbón y Borbón-Dos Sicilias. No sympathy if some Baby Boomer ends up alone in life.

[K]

"It was the Baby Boomers who came out with the extremely bigoted phrase "Don't Trust Anyone Over 30!" They even put out the film Logan's Run with the plot line that people have to die at 30. So "Too old to bother?"

So in 1968 everyone in their 20s agreed with "don't trust anyone over 30" and they are doomed to take the results of that saying for the rest of their lives? That's interesting.

[Ed]

Could we junk this faulty logic that begins: "This guy is a babyboomer, and therefore necessarily follows all babyboomer norms. He is also necessarily responsible for all of them." I thought gays had learned to be wary of stereotypes?

I think the issue probably goes further than just being a gay one, and has to do with us all living longer, expecting to be healthy and sexy longer etc. etc. I probably need to think about this more.

But in the meantime, could we have a bit of common courtesy here? Anyone who types in mean comments to a guy they don't know on the basis of a few sentences is a jerk. And that goes for older or younger, gay or straight.

[Eric]

Raster...so apparently you lump a whole generation together and think that they're all identical and had identical beliefs? Wow, that's extremely openminded. That's like saying all gays are the same or all blacks, asians etc. Or maybe all Gen-Xer's too? Media and pop culture try to always put a whole generation in a neat little box and define them the same way....doesn't mean we have to believe that.